The Retail Whore Podcast creator, Michelle Sherrier is our Episode 1 guest, also known as The Solocast! Michelle gives listeners a deep dive into her retail journey, the good, the bad, and the lessons learned along the way. From as a 14-year-old girl from Manhattan Beach working in her first retail store, to modeling in Japan, back to the retail world working for giants such as Fred Segal & Anthropologie and ultimately branching off and building her own visual merchandising company, MC Design Collaboration.
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Hey there. I'm Michelle Sherrier and this is the Retail Whore Podcast, The Stories and Lessons from the life and retail. Hey everybody, welcome to the Retail Whore Podcast. Today's episode is our first episode and it's a solo cast, so I figured the best way to introduce myself to people that don't know me already from my brand image design collaboration is to give you a little bit of background on me. I have been, as I said in the intro, I've been in retail for almost 41 years. I'm 55 now and I started at 14. My mom came out one day and said, You're not sitting on your ass again this summer. I was 14, and as much of a shocker as that was, it shouldn't have been a shocker. My parents have been divorced since I was about four and living in Manhattan Beach. It wasn't the Manhattan Beach that it is now, but it certainly was still a beach city. And my mom had been a single mom trying to keep us in the same house we were raised in. And, you know, of course, my brother and I wanted like everything else, all the other kids had clothing, bikes, whatever, whatever it is when you the things you want when you're that age. And my mom just couldn't do it anymore. So and I don't blame her. So I got a job. She drove me to the mall, dropped me off.
And I think I remember just walking like two or three stores and I landed in the wet seal. And to be honest, I loved it. I mean, I, I was the person changing the displays on the walls. I don't know how many of you remember that, but it's like it was all slat wall and they had all these face outs all up the whole wall and it was, you know, changing in and out apparel. And I have to laugh now because, you know, it's true. They say fashion circles back around and everything that's going on right now is what we're doing in the wet seal. So wrap around pants, the big blazers with shoulder pads, bra tops and paper bag jeans. Only I wore mine with white cowboy boots. Don't hate me, but it was it was so much fun. And it was like, you know, fashion and retail back then was busy, was a different animal than it is now. So it was it was so much fun to be able to have a chance to learn or cut my teeth, so to speak, and and that environment. And I don't remember how long I was there for. I went off to go work at an ice cream shop because all the cute boys came in there. So I, somewhere along the way decided that I didn't want to I didn't want to do fashion anymore. I want to be around cute boys.
That's true. People that know me, it shouldn't be a surprise. I, I forget what I think. I was about. 18. No, 17. And I had the opportunity to go to Japan to model. I was already modeling. Esprit was one of my clients, so I was already doing some work here. But I had an opportunity to go live in Tokyo. My my dad hired a Japanese reading, speaking Jewish lawyer who went through all of my contracts because back in the day and I don't know if it still happens now, but the Japanese mafia, the Yakuza had a very profitable business, bringing in young girls, telling them they were going to model and they'd get there and take their passports away. And the rest is history. So my dad was very diligent about getting that. And I lived in Tokyo for, I don't know, I think it was like six months or something. And I came home to to renew my passport. You could either go to Hong Kong or you could go back to LA. So I came back to L.A. I was in the process of renewing my passport and my dad died. And I don't know if how many of you have lost a parent, but even though I wasn't super, super close to my dad, I mean, our parents are divorced and I'd see him every other week and then there's times you wouldn't see him at all.
But it's it's it wrecks you. It's it still affects me in so much of how I react to things to this day because of losing my dad. But my my downfall was my very good friend Gus. When we were growing up, Gus decided he didn't want to bring me flowers like everybody else was getting when their parent or somebody dies. Gus brought me four quarts of Haagen-Dazs ice cream. How appropriate. And guess who ate them all? I did. So needless to say, when? Because I hit. In my room in my I was I was in an apartment and I hid in my apartment. I didn't want to see anybody. I didn't want to talk about anything. And so I basically just stayed there and unfortunately drank and ate my ice cream. And when I finally re-emerged, it was no longer an option to go model I had gained. I don't know how much weight, but that was the end of and the end of the dream of like, let's go back to Tokyo, because that was not happening at that point anymore. And you know what? I think it's probably for the best. I waited, waited tables, kind of bounced around from here and there. And I had an opportunity to go put my resume in to Fred SIEGEL and Santa monica. I think I was living in Venice at this time, so whenever there I knew nothing about Fred and I knew nothing about that whole environment.
And I went in. It was the couple of days before the big sale and put in my application was interviewed by Michael Campbell. And I was hired and it was hired for, I think, temporary for just the sale, if I remember. Right. It was like one of those proving things where if you're if you prove yourself, then you're hired. And if not, we've got an extra set of hands for the sale and and the sale working the sale was insanity. And I you know, for those of you who are younger, who I know everyone knows Fred Segal. But back in the day for for those of us who are older, the Fred Segal sale was the event. Fred only had a sale at that point one time of year. He believed truly that if you had to put things on sale, then you made a mistake in in. It's kind of true, but it's also not and it certainly isn't the most realistic thing, especially now with the fact that it's you need to turn your inventory. But we would literally sit on inventory for if it bombed in, I think our sales were in September. If it bombed in November, you had it packed up for almost a year. I mean, after you pulled it off the floor. So the Fred Segal sale was one of those things where people waited all year long for it.
And back in the day it was such a big event that they would line up around the corner for blocks waiting to get in and the energy was crazy when we're getting ready for it because everyone inside has been prepping for the sale for weeks, if not months, for a lot of the owners. And you had your wardrobe, which was your Fred Segal t shirt, and you could wear denim on the bottom shorts, jeans, skirts, whatever. I apparently chose to wear the daisy dukes and everybody would gather together in the morning. Fred would say something, and we had a DJ in the store at that point. And the first song, as they Open the Doors and all these people have fled and fled the store and come in was My Sharona. And still to this day, I'm not going to lie. I hear that song, and immediately I'm taken back to the Fred Segal sale. But it went the Fred the sale would go on for like three weeks. So I guess in those three weeks I proved myself because Michael Campbell hired me on I was hired on a sales and it was magical. Fred was Michael's partner. And and for those of you who don't know Fred Segal, what is a building that there are multiple stores within it and there's not really walls and doors to separate them.
So you could easily walk from one store to another and not realize that you've just left that store only until you go to pay for somebody else's stuff in someone else's stores that they redirect you if you able to get out with the merchandise, which wasn't always the case, but when you were, that's when you kind of figured out that you've gone and you've left the you've left one store and you now are in another store, but each store separately owned and operated. They had several ice was there for jewelry. I think Derrylin Conn had zero minus plus. Jackie and Christie had Fred Segal fun. Janine, who has superb now Janine had Fred Segal flair and Michael and Fred Segal had Fred Segal finery and Fred Segal axis and I started an axis. So, you know, the sale is over now and now everyone's getting back to normal. Now is when the real education happens of how your customer service is with high end clientele and how to hem a pair of pants. And you have having clientele books. And I'll be honest, it's my customer service beliefs are still so tied into how I was trained and what I. I learned at Fred Seagull. And it was very spoon fed, spoon fed current customer service and literally just babying our clients. And that's what people came to us for. And every single sale you sent a thank you card and you had people's addresses and phone numbers.
And I mean, you had celebrities phone numbers and addresses, and often you became very good friends with them because you were the person that was there hemming their pants. And when something came in that you knew they wanted, you would call them and let them know that it was on hold. And that's still like, to me, customer service wise, that still is the best the best representation of a store is that kind of customer service. And we all know it's very rare. And this is where I lose my mind when people say Amazon is taking over the world and it's going to take over all these small specialty stores. And this is where I don't believe it, because I still believe that customer service outweighs the an inexpensive item or the ease of just ordering and off the Internet. Amazon is never going to send you a thank you card. They're never going to send you a birthday card. They're not going to call you and let you know your favorite line is in. And we just pulled you all the charges and they're on hold for you and come in when you want. And because of that, you you really are in kind of a bubble. And we were so lucky to be around some of those people. I mean, we had Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. I mean, I'm going to date myself because all these people were still married at that point.
But Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid were still there. Bruce and Demi were still customers and married. And Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver, who scared the hell out of me. But, you know, we had Barbra Streisand who also scared the hell out of me. And you were dealing with the caliber of people that honestly you will never see in, especially now with the social media and paparazzi. There wasn't any of that in that element. And even though there's paparazzi, then they were certainly kept out by Isidora and the guys that work there that kind of also played security. But it was a magical, magical time. And Fred Fred kind of took me under his wing. I was very lucky in the sense of I spent a lot of years on the floor selling and he kind of pushed me to want more and expected more out of me, as did Michael Campbell. And you, you're kind of being groomed and you don't realize it. I became a manager and they opened Fred Segal for a Better Ecology, which was across the street from the Santa Monica 500 Broadway location, which is originally the just for a little piece of history on that building was the original ice skating rink that they filmed Rocky in. So Fred opened a building, bought a building across the street and opened it up as an eco eco building.
And let me let you know this like at this point, eco recycling, none of that was what it is now like at all. Fred was so ahead of so much in his time, this included. So I had an opportunity to go over and open and run a store and the guy's was we're going to give you six months to run it. And that means you're doing the buying, you're doing all the banking, you're doing all the hiring or doing all the payroll. You're doing all of it basically as a manager, but you are doing it with the hopes that you will become a partner. So six months later, I think it was six months I was given the opportunity to become a partner with Michael Campbell and Fred. And so I was an owner. And soon after that, I, I ended up being the only owner. I don't remember how that transition happened, to be honest. This is a long time ago, but I ended up having that store and then I got a little crazy and opened a second store. And then I had the opportunity to take over someone's store that left. And against many people's advice, I still decided to do it. And for those of you who know me, know that I am all about taking risks and jumping. And that certainly was no different at that period in time either.
But I did it and it was, you know, they were my stores and the expectation. It was very big there at Fred Segal. You had I had very big shoes to fill coming out of Michael Campbell's wing and having having spent however many years I was already there. The expectation was the stores are going to be successful. And they were up until the Northridge earthquake and suddenly it was one I was overextended. So I have retailers that will ask me, you know, we're talking about expanding and and opening this store and opening that store. And your original store that you have still is not fully doesn't have a full inventory. You are clearly kind of stretched, but yet you're talking about opening more locations. And now I am the first person to tell people, I highly recommend that you get your first order and order and make sure it's profitable and you have enough money to put into inventory, etc. fixtures the store build out before you decide to go jump and make this make this move. Because I did not listen. And I'll be the first to admit that if I had stuck with just one store, I'd probably still would have been there until the bitter end. But I didn't. And that was my lesson. And it's also partly the reason why my phrase failure is the best teacher. This was the first really big failure.
And let me tell you, it was a big failure. And, you know, I will tell people this when we start talking about my back in my days at Fred's is that you're in such a bubble. And because you're dealing with so many celebrities and you really kind of forget that that's not the norm and well, I became kind of an asshole. And, you know, I was 27, I had 3 stores. We're dealing with all these celebrities. You have a lot of money for that age. And you you you're put into a position where you're going to shows like ASR and Magic and Gift shows, and you walk in and you've got a Fred Segal badge and people are like, Oh, sit down. What can we get you? I mean, you your ass is kissed like there's no tomorrow. And I know all the reps that are listening to this. No, because, you know, when somebody comes in, that's a big store. That's a store that's not just big, but is a store that's a high profile store. You want to be in that store. So you have a lot of people that are will do just about anything to get you to right the line. And that really at 27 went to my head and I'm not proud of it, but it is my second biggest lesson of humility and all those people I was an asshole to and I'm so embarrassed, but there's a lot of them and I was a total asshole.
But all those people that you treat on the way up and how you treat them are so happy and excited to see you and watch you fall. And so that was my that was my second lesson of realizing that you to be like that is not needed to the gift of humility, which that was my gift has served me well. Now I'm I will be I will never I don't care how big I get or what have you. I will never treat people or act like that because there's really no need at all. And I feel like I have so much more compassion and empathy and patience and I'm just a better person now. And it's all because of that, that lesson and losing literally everything. Because when the Northridge earthquake happened, my attorneys and my accountant pulled me aside and said, We're pulling the plug because you are so overextended because you didn't listen to us and you kept buying and kept buying. And I was taking credit from one store to pay for another. And the Northridge earthquake, I didn't have insurance. And, you know, you no one really knew that was ever going to happen. And all all of anything that you had delivered was delivered at 30. Not 30 is in 30 days. You pay for your invoice. Well, if you don't have product to pay for your invoice, you still owe for that invoice.
And so that was the end of the road for Fred Segal Comfort, which was the store. And I closed the store. I went through a very shameful and embarrassing bankruptcy. Again, that was probably lesson number three of humility and failures. Your best instructor, but bankruptcy. It was not fun. And to go through it so young and go through it so publicly because you not only had the public eye of the people that shop with you, you had your employees, you had other store owners, and you had Fred. The biggest the biggest letdown of all. And he was not happy. And I don't blame him. But, you know, unfortunately, when you're 27 and you have that much square footage and you have that much debt, you you don't have a lot of options. So it was it was rough. And and a little bit of back story of my relationship with Fred. I then husband was Mike Teele, who worked for Fred and built Fred's properties out in Malibu where Fred lived and built a lot of the stores. And so Fred and Mike were very, very tight. And Fred was also not only my financial backer and my mentor, Fred was also in my wedding. I mean, we lived on his property. I mean, there it was so embroiled in in his business, in his life that when this happened, he was not happy, to say the least.
It caught him off guard. I mean, it caught me off guard, but I'm not I'm not quite sure what he would have expected me to do, but it certainly wasn't to claim bankruptcy. So but, you know, as I sit here now and I think about that time, I am so grateful for that because the lessons that I learned, good, bad and indifferent, we're all so incredibly valuable. And I still a lot of like my philosophy on customer service. All of that is from Fred. And he by the time you've heard this, Fred, passed away a few months ago. And, you know, I am beyond grateful to have had the experience, to have learned under his wing, have been trusted enough to open a store within his complex and to have had him in my life. And it's just something that I will never take for granted and never, never forget because I it was truly a magical, magical. Even losing everything was truly magical. So fast forward a little bit of going through that humility. Like you, it was pretty dark there for a little bit because I was too embarrassed to go show myself at the store, even though I wanted to say hi to my friends. But I was too embarrassed to show up. And I think, to be honest, Fred was too pissed off to have me show up.
And so I started putting out resumes to other companies. And one thing you don't realize, again, another lesson is that we were very kind of small boutique like we hand wrote our invoices, we like to tallied everything up on a calculator. Every night the registers were zeroed out. And for anybody that knows old school registers, you know what the Z key is. And so now said, I'm putting resumes out and you're thinking, oh, I've owned stores at Fred Segal again. Still haven't learned that that humility thing yet. But you're thinking you're all that in a Big Mac and you start getting asked questions on interviews like, can are you computer proficient? Are you proficient in Mac or MPS? I'm still really not. So clearly I haven't come that far, but I wasn't. And at that point, everyone in retail is completely online and there is no such thing as handwriting receipts anymore, which I actually I have to say, I went into Beehive the other day down in Manhattan Beach, and I was so happy to see the handwrite their receipts. It was so I don't know. There's something about that that I love. But anyway, so I had a lot of interviews and a whole lot of no's. Thank you very much, because I had no idea what I have a great I can merchandise like there's no tomorrow I could buy but none of it was on any type of computer program, spreadsheet, etc..
So in the big picture, you are you're not going to be able to be placed into a job like that unless you can do any of that. And I couldn't. So, you know, humility, strike number five or ten, I don't know what it was. You know, I started kind of figuring out what else I wanted. And it was merchandising. Management is really what my strong point is. And that's where I started kind of going towards. I was going for buying jobs, but that didn't work out. So I started going for a retail management jobs and I got hired at ZGallerie and I was running the Third Street Promenade Store, which was amazing. Like this is like the height of retail where people would come in and buy like thousands and thousands of dollars worth of furniture off the Third Street Promenade Store. And I was lucky enough to have a beautiful lady who I'm still friends with Melissa. She was the basically operations. I think she was assistant manager, but she might as well have been operations. She had to she had the lovely job of teaching me how to use the computer and how to we were doing. Sorry if I'm blanking right now. We were doing custom framing. So custom framing is major mathematical equations. And that's another thing I'm not great at is math. And poor Melissa had the job of frustrating job of trying to teach me how to do these programs and God love her.
But what I did find out is that I really gravitated towards the merchandising and every week ZGallerie would have a shipment and it was literally like a 23 foot truck pulls up and they offload it. And you do this at six in the morning, everyone offloads the truck together and then you have break for breakfast. You come back and you start going through the truck, opening things up, and you get it ready for the merchandising team that would come the next day. And I just kept finding myself gravitating more and more to the merchandise part of it where it was literally like I was doing more merchandising than I was managing. And because I was not very proficient in some of the systems that I think it was, it was noticed that I was gravitating towards that. And I had the chance to start merchandising with the merchandising team on the road. And I jumped and I, I still to this day, I am so grateful that that I had that opportunity with that company because it was so fast. And you were in a new store every single day because you literally would just follow the schedule of the truck. So one day we were in Santa Barbara, one day we were in Santa Monica, one day we were in Long Beach, and every day we'd be in a new location.
And it was it was amazing. I had an incredible team. Fabian is one of my team members and so talented and it was so much fun and all we did was laugh and place merchandise and it was just again, it was a whole nother magical time and I'm so lucky that I had that opportunity. And the somewhere along the way, I'm not quite sure. I was at the Promenade one day and I had Kristen. I forget her last name. Sorry, but Kristin came in. She was the head of visuals for Anthropologie. I mean, she was the person that decided what Wall Finish was going to be in each of the new locations. And she did a lot of the architectural display elements. And she came to me and and kind of followed me a bit in the store and talked to me a bit and kind of wooed me to go to Anthropologie and the rest is kind of history on that. I was with Anthropologie for seven years and it was hands down the best education that I can ever say that I received for free. And I've talked to a few of the people that say the same thing that the education you get from Anthropologie, whether it be a tool or reading reports, that the balance that Anthropologie has of business and aesthetics is phenomenal. And learning to understand how the two work together in reading your reports is is so valuable.
And it's still to this day kind of how when I work with retailers and pharmacy for existing for example when I came on board six years ago, they did not have a sales they didn't have sales reports. So I had to put sales reports together. And we do toy for those who don't know this your lost your number so it gives them a baseline of where we want to be. 20% is is the average increase that I look for. It's not always realistic, but to me it's always better to go higher. And, you know, it's for those of you who don't who have reports and don't utilize them, I will tell you this one example is. Is there? There are items for for anthropology you have. They call them velocity items. And it's a ten items for each of the departments. So cut. And so you have the top ten cut. And so the top ten dish lines, the top ten candles, the top ten. You see where I'm going with this? And you get a report every Monday with all your top ten velocity items. And your job as a merchandiser is to make sure a your store is stocked, it looks good, etc., but also to make sure that your inventory is on the floor and is where it's supposed to be in order to see the numbers turn.
And for instance, and you'll hear this story a lot on the podcast because it's like it's come up like three times. But there was a velocity item for wall decor and it was this hideous little fish beaded wall decor thing. And I fucking hated this thing and honest to God like it would. It's a velocity item, so you have to place it. And they, they're so detailed in the sense of like this concept has these velocity items and they have to be in that concept. So the fish I think was in the bath concept and I hated it so much. I would literally like hide it, I'd throw it in a bin, it would be down below and it was on the floor technically, but it was certainly not not visible. And every single freaking Monday we get the velocity reports, we get our we get our box of reports and you'd go through velocity and it was like my job, your job as a merchandiser is to make sure your store is running around the same lines and numbers as a store that's comparable to you. So I think Soho at that point was the store that we were closest to and guaranteed every single Monday that goddamn fish beaded thing was not in the top ten velocity for our store and every single. And you think I would have caught on it first couple of times, but every single conference call on Mondays we'd have we come up.
Michelle, where is your fish beaded fish wall decor piece and is it on the floor or is it in the back room? And it's on the floor and it's like, is it visible? It's I, I think it is. And, you know, that report will tell you if it's a not on your floor or B, it's not in a visible space because it doesn't show up on the report because it is one of their top selling items. So it becomes extremely clear that that item is not on your floor or is so hidden that people can't find it because they could they'd be buying it. So I, you know, it took a while, but out of more, I don't want to say ego, but out of like hating the thing. I started to play a game with myself of making this damn hook thing look as good as it possibly could. And I still now have that same kind of thought process when there's something that I know sells and I. I just don't like it. I may have bought it for the store, but I don't like it. And it's like it doesn't work with a lot of things, but I know it sells, so I've now kind of made it a job with myself of like, okay, we're going to make this look as good as possible.
So a hopefully you can sell it and it's gone. But of course, if it sells a lot and it's one of your bread and butter items, which is basically a velocity item, then you need to keep reordering it. But that that whole report system that Anthropologie uses is now kind of how I work with customers and stores and their sales reports. But certainly the visual aesthetic is what I take away the most from I have a really good eye, but Anthro has done a very good job of really kind of dialing in your I, teaching you the aesthetic, teaching you things like keeping all like items together, not putting every single item on a table. So you turn it into a garage sale there like signage of things, inserts on frames. I mean, there are so many of these little lessons that are so invaluable that they all came from Anthro and they're still, to this day, lessons. I teach my retailers and people that follow me on MCDesign Collaboration. They're still lessons I share with our audience because they work and they're proven, proven rules of retail that work. So I'm very grateful for Anthro for that. I think I was in Anthro for about seven years. I decided to leave because to be honest, I'm really not a very good corporate person. I, as you can tell, I kind of speak my mind and I say what I feel.
And in that situation, you kind of have to dial back. What you really want to say and kind of wrap it up in a different verbal style. And I, I just did not have that. And, and also, to be honest, I was kind of burnt out is kind of skating. I wasn't wasn't reaching my best potential anymore. I think just because, you know, after seven years of reinventing the same four walls within the store, you you definitely start to get burned out. And I, I could see the writing law. I think my bosses could see the writing on the wall because I had a DM that made it very, very challenging, which put the pressure on me to quit. And this is another one of those lessons of I tell people this all the time, the universe does a very good job of putting obstacles in your way for you to either go around them or walk to them. And the universe put this district manager in my path to make it very difficult because I wasn't applying myself 110% for sure. So she was doing her job and I she made it just uncomfortable enough for me where I was like, f this, I'm starting my own brand. And I did. And I had one client in the beginning and one client grew to a pharmacy, San Pedro pharmacy, who the marshal and Sara who owned the pharmacy are were like my Jewish parents and I love them, they're family.
And I just kind of grew my business from there. Now I work with pharmacies, I work with regular retailers, boutique apparel and gift stores. I do buying, I do consulting with retailers and kind of walk their store. And it and all I'm doing is applying all the lessons that I've learned literally through this whole entire career. So I take all of that and I work with people and I now work with wholesale showrooms as well. I made that jump probably about, I want to say ten years ago. Stephen Young I've been with Steven for about ten years. Actually, Peking Handicraft is my first. I've been with Peking Handicraft for about 18 years and I was brought on to do display in a temp booth in Atlanta for design was it was her rollout of her brand new line. And so Stephen Young, I'm now a sales producers. I'm still at Peking. I work for art, floral trading and some other. So I'm very lucky in the sense that I can go back and forth between retail and wholesale. Both have high and low times right now. As I'm recording this, I am starting I started the wholesale showroom setups for the gift shows that happen twice a year. I started with Atlanta last week. As of Friday, I'm with Stephen Young and I'll be with Stephen for almost a month of redoing their showroom.
And and then I move on to Las Vegas. So, you know, I'm very blessed in the sense that I don't have to go to the same place every day. And I'm very blessed that some of the stores I work for have some of the most amazing, beautiful merchandise that I've ever seen. I'm very blessed that I, I get to do the shows as a buyer as well and curate my own gift concepts for the pharmacy and do the apparel shows. And all of this is all collectively, you know, to be honest, it's all from Fred and from Anthro. And and I don't forget that there's not a day that goes by that I don't forget any of that. And where I came from and I, I don't know, I'm super grateful. So that's it about me, at least business wise, personal. Personally, I have two little dogs who bark like mothers, and you will hear them from time to time in the background of some of my some of my interviews, I have a husband who I love dearly. When we got married October of 2019, right before the whole world changed. And thank God, because our wedding would not have happened if it happened just a few months later. We I live in Redondo Beach and to be honest, I'm happiest when I'm on my back yard, and I'm also happiest when I'm under the gun.
So thank you all for following along this journey. And I'm so excited to bring you some of my favorite retailers, some of my favorite wholesalers. You know, the more and more I'm starting to delve into some of these interviews, I just you know, my favorite question now is become at the very end. And for all the guests, it is, what is your advice for someone that whatever it is starting any. On opening a multiple store. And if you if you do anything past listening to the first 15 minutes, listen to the last minute because honestly the advice that Annie from Urban Girl has given and the ladies from Rock Scissor Paper and Chris from Great Paper Gifts and paper, I mean, their advice is phenomenal. And for anyone that is looking to join this industry or you're already in this industry, I highly suggest that you listen to that part, and that is it for me. Thank you again for following along. I'm super excited for you to listen to some of these interviews and I can't wait to hear what you guys think. I will see you soon. And that is a wrap. Thank you all so much for joining me on today's episode. I really appreciate it. And be sure to tune in every Wednesday for more stories and lessons from a life in retail. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Retail Whore Podcast, and you can find us online at the retailwhorepodcast.com